From Today's "Meet the Press" on NBC.

Chuck Todd interviewed David Brody, chief political correspondent for the Christian Broadcasting Network, alongside Kathleen Parker, of the Washington Post:

CHUCK TODD:

David, let me start with you. When you hear Mike Huckabee say what he said, and you've talked to the prominent members of the evangelical movement, they don't like the surrender that many prominent Republicans indicated this week, do they?

DAVID BRODY:

They don't like it at all. You know, look, many politicians see it as a political issue, gay marriage, that is. Mike Huckabee and others see it as a principle. And I think that's the difference. Is it a political issue for you, or is it a principle? You know, there was a conservative author and historian Russell Kirk, who used to say basically, "Politicians are actors performing a script that is written by the audience." And look, the audience here are evangelical Christians, who let's face it Chuck, are not voting. People say, "Wait, not voting? What are you talking about?" Thirty million evangelicals voted in 2012.

CHUCK TODD:

You still believe they're not voting?

DAVID BRODY:

With, listen to this. Eighty million, there are about 80 million evangelicals in this country. That puts 50 million evangelicals sitting on the sidelines.

CHUCK TODD:

You know, Kathleen, I'm going to show some polls here. This stuff has moved whether it's on abortion, whether it's on same-sex marriage, whether it's on marijuana legalization. The culture wars have shifted to the left. Many in Republicans are trying to acknowledge that general public shift. And yet, it's going to cause some heartburn.

KATHLEEN PARKER:

Well, I would characterize things slightly differently, that's what's going on within the Republican party I think is sort of not so much a transformation as a reformation. And I think what they're trying to do in terms of, at least among those who are more accepting of these changes, is I don't think the Republicans are so much changing their core values as they are sort of trying to change the way they approach things.

And it mirrors what's going on in Rome right now with the <s>Senate</s>  (*sic.  =Synod). The pope is trying to figure out how to do affirmative things for families pastorally, and the party is trying to figure out how to do things affirmatively without being condemnatory, without being judgmental, without being harsh.

CHUCK TODD:

David, is there a movement among evangelicals to essentially accept same-sex marriage and promote family?

DAVID BRODY:

Well, I wouldn't call it, no.

CHUCK TODD:

Yes?

DAVID BRODY:

No, no.

CHUCK TODD:

Okay.

DAVID BRODY:

There's not a movement necessarily. There are bits and pieces, small little blocks here and there. But that's not the movement. Actually Chuck, the movement is quite the opposite. You know, there's all these "pastors and pews" events where Mike Huckabee, Rand Paul, Ted Cruz, Rick Perry, Bobby Jindal, all speaking in front of these influential evangelical crowd.

And so I think that really is the movement in this country. The question is, can these Christians actually go ahead and vote finally because quite frankly, as much as the mainstream media wants to talk about that, well, look evangelicals are voting, they're always voting. Well, not necessarily, Chuck.

CHUCK TODD:

You know, and Kathleen, he just ticked off a whole bunch of potential presidential candidates.

KATHLEEN PARKER:

Right.

CHUCK TODD:

This is going to potentially become very public inside the Republican party during the battle in 2016. And that seems to have hurt Republicans, at least with swing voters.

KATHLEEN PARKER:

Well, absolutely. And I think that there will be less empha-- look, same-sex marriage, just to take one issue, has never been as potent as something as like abortion. And abortion will remain a litmus test I think for any Republican running for a national office. And that's going to be problematic in the general obviously.

But I think you have to keep paying attention to what Republican leaders, other than the ones you've mentioned, are talking about. Now if you read the op-ed in The Wall Street Journal last week, that was co-authored by Marco Rubio and Mike Lee, you know, trying talking again about reforms that steer away from the wedge issues, and focus on how can we help families with tax reform and things like that.

CHUCK TODD:

And Tony Perkins and these guys, they're not going to like this, are they?

DAVID BRODY:

No. Well, they're not going to like the way they see the polls. But here's the thing. Judicial activism is a big part of this. And I think this is the way Republicans, especially the politicians that are in powerful seats in Washington can kind of get around this issue to talk about.

CHUCK TODD:

So you paper over it, you go to judicial activism, and it's a wink and a nod, "Hey, I mean measure (*sic*=marriage), but I'm not really saying it."

DAVID BRODY:

Well, I think that's part of it for sure. And look, we're in a culture war, there are a lot of battles within that war. And I think the next battle you're going to see is on religious liberty as it relates to pastors speaking out from the pulpit. Think about this, Chuck for a second. If pastors are actually speaking from the pulpit against gay marriage, a hate crime potentially, is that the next wave? Well, that's a battle that still hasn't been waged.

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Don't say you weren't warned.

And don't tell me the war is won, when people are still wanting to wage battles in some jurisdictions.

IN OTHER NEWS:  Paul Krugman was a breath of fresh air this morning in an outside interview on ABC's "This Week" on why he thinks President Obama's legacy will be substantively more significant than even the first President Clinton's.  Plus, Krugman pretty much confirmed what Barack Obama will be doing post-presidency, reporting that he finds the president's way of thinking even more "professorial" than his own.  

Some people operate better in theory, while we still need people to carry those theories out, on the ground.  Overall, an interesting assessment, and who better to deliver than one who was quite critical back in 2009?  Watch the whole thing.